Okla. House OKs 'In God We Trust' for state motto

By: From Wire Reports
By: From Wire Reports

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) - The Oklahoma House has adopted a resolution declaring "Oklahoma - In God We Trust!" as the state's official motto.

The resolution was adopted Monday on a voice vote and now heads to the Senate for consideration.

Democratic Rep. Danny Morgan of Prague says he introduced the measure after learning Oklahoma never officially adopted a state motto. The words "Labor Omnia Vincit," or "Labor Conquers All Things," appears on the state seal, but Morgan says it was never officially authorized as the state motto. He says he hopes to keep "Labor Omnia Vincit" as the state slogan.

The head of the Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, former Democratic state Rep. Ryan Kiesel referred to the resolution as a "frivolous waste of legislative time."

(Copyright 2012 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)

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  • by Anonymous on Apr 3, 2012 at 04:51 PM
    That's right, they should have a legislator standing with tools at the ready at every siren in the state in case one fails? What childish snarky arguments you make. Do you really think the state is responsible for community tornado alarms? Wouldn't that be sort of silly considering the people in the community are right there, know where the alarm would best serve and can test and repair as needed? Or do you think bigger is better and the Obama should be taking care of community tornado alarms? Leave the thinking to adults.
  • by Biffco Location: Dallas on Apr 3, 2012 at 03:27 PM
    There's another story on here about how Tishomingo's only tornado siren is not working. I guess the legislature can waste time and money on silliness like a new state motto, and let critical infrastructure decay and rot. I guess they HAVE to put their trust in God, cause the government sure isn't doing it for them.
    • reply
      by Logic on Apr 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM in reply to Biffco
      I have to agree with Anonymous on this one. Only the local communities can keep up with their development and decide which places are best to install them. Government bureaucracy does tend to complicate things in that they tend to use outdated schematics and town blueprints and don't keep up with spreading subdivisions and population centers. Accoustics can even play a role in the placement of sirens for optimal range. They should also have local activation enabled rather than relying too exclusively on NOAA, but maintain the NOAA feed regardless. Even a lag time of 30 seconds could cost a life. And shouldn't they have caught this in a regular test? Perhaps it received damage or something. I feel local communities should carry this responsibility..and the cost should come from property taxes. Sensible and realistic. The Government will get the bill AFTER the Tornado has passed you can rest assured! Insurance Company lobbyist will be flocking to DC for a handout!
      • reply
        by Anonymous on Apr 4, 2012 at 08:44 PM in reply to Logic
        You had me at 'I have to agree'. Did you really have to elaborate?
      • reply
        by Biffco on Apr 9, 2012 at 10:39 AM in reply to Logic
        I stand corrected regarding the tornado sirens. But I still think the OK legislature could make better use of their time than coming up with pithy "state mottos" that pander to religious views that are not shared by everyone.
        • reply
          by Logic on Apr 10, 2012 at 04:48 PM in reply to Biffco
          Not really. It's still a government that is initiating the process, just call it a municipality if you want to be more specific. Still tax payer driven. Same thing just smaller scale.
  • by Biffco Location: Dallas/Sherman on Apr 3, 2012 at 12:48 PM
    "In Zeus We Trust" Has kind of a nice ring to it, don't you think?
  • by somebody Location: marshall county on Apr 2, 2012 at 01:19 PM
    I feel sorry for the non believers. I pray you find what I enjoy in my faith. I will take my simple faith in my powerful God. Hope you non-believers and skeptics see the truth. Way to go Oklahoma Legislature!!!
    • reply
      by Logic on Apr 2, 2012 at 04:34 PM in reply to somebody
      The fact that a religious person may be happier than a non-religious person is no more relevance than a drunken man happier than a sober one. I'm paraphrasing someone here but the name escapes me. I realize that you have convinced yourself that when you die you are gonna be with your dead relatives and sing songs and dance forever and ever. I get that. But don't you also see the peace in nothingness? I have no more fear of death than having an extended open-heart surgery....forever, in fact. When I die I will be where I was when they built the Pyramids. The pious often claim there are no atheists in foxholes, but I disagree. Each one of us has a method to cope with our own mortality...I just don't arrive at mine through guilt. So I have no fear of death and, since I have never killed someone or stolen anything from anyone either, I have no guilt in need of salvation. And that is the trick isn't it..you have to first implant the necessary guilt to get the person convinced they need salvation. Wouldn't you say that every one of us is born going to your hell by default? That is...unless...we believe right? So how does one turn their belief switch on? How can we convince our brains to believe in something we know in our hearts isn't true? Some of us simply do not carry the necessary tools to discern reality through a bronze-aged inspired religion.
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Apr 2, 2012 at 07:32 PM in reply to somebody
      And we as non believers hope for nothing but goodness. I wish not to impose on anyone but I respect everyone. I do see the truth. Maybe the truth for me is different than the truth for you. I would never ask my government to print "In nothing we trust" on anything but I do believe this in more ways than you will ever imagine. I trust and believe in myself. That works for me.
  • by Amy Location: Texas on Mar 31, 2012 at 12:31 AM
    I don't believe there is a sadder existence than a person who devotes significant time trying to prove to themselves and others that the Lord isn't real. It is also sad that Christians are viewed so poorly based on the impression only a selection of us makes. For every Christian who lives their life honorably, true to their belief, devoted to giving everything they have to others, people who loosely throw "Bible thumper" etc. around should feel some level of shame at the malice within their free flowing mouths and their arrogant statutes. Christians and atheists toss the very same accusations at eachother in a relentless circle. "You're ignorant, no YOU'RE ignorant, this is how it is, no THIS is how it is!" While you're accusing me of "shoving my beliefs down your (easily offended) throat", you're doing the exact same thing to me. Christians have a duty to spread their beliefs IN something, rather than a self-appointed mission to reverse the belief. While Christians don't always do it gracefully, our beliefs primarily involve spreading the Gospel, rather than wasting time griping about something we don't even believe in. I think society is so busy apologizing to the minorities, their forgetting the classic term "majority rules" and telling the majority to shut up and deal with the slander.
    • reply
      by Biffco on Apr 2, 2012 at 08:34 AM in reply to Amy
      That's because you haven't lived that life, Amy. Atheists are some of the happiest people out there. Christians paint them as unhappy and then link their unhappiness to a "lack of God" in their lives because they have to. You've been told all your life that you are somehow incomplete with out faith and you believe it. Then you encounter someone who doesn't believe and they are just as complete and happy as you. Maybe more so. The universe is a fascinating place and merits scientific study, and to write off something we don't understand (yet) as "God's will" and leave it at that is a disservice to society. As an Atheist, I don't want or need your pity. I'm doing just fine without superstition being a major component of my psyche, thank you. And Atheists don't really "shove anything down anybodies throat." There's nothing to shove. Absence of belief is just the natural state of humanity. Religion is what is forced on people as it has to be taught and carried on generation to generation, despite it ludicrous premise. Religion is threatened by Atheism. Atheism is just annoyed by religion.
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Apr 2, 2012 at 11:32 AM in reply to Amy
      Amy, the people who comdemned and crucified Jesus saw nothing in Him, but what they all heard from one another. Two-thousand-years later people have'nt changed much. Focus on Him and not the argument. The only power Satan really has is the power of contention, debate, and the confusion it creates. If you can't see any further than what everyone else says, you'll never see any further than that into God.....
      • reply
        by Biffco on Apr 2, 2012 at 08:23 PM in reply to
        I've always wanted to be a minion.
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Apr 3, 2012 at 07:40 AM in reply to Biffco
          Obama is busily building his as we speak and you sound like a prime candidate. Stop wanting and start doing! Be all the mindless minion you can be!
        • reply
          by Biffco on Apr 3, 2012 at 10:24 AM in reply to Biffco
          Or was it Onion?
      • reply
        by Joey on Apr 6, 2012 at 09:38 AM in reply to
        Actually, Anonymous, while it was the Roman "justice" system that tried, convicted, and performed the crucifiction of Jesus, it was God fearing Jews who encouraged it. In a sense, the crucifiction of Jesus is an early example of how political pressure can influence a government. In this case, a government that was mostly ambivilant to what Jesus was doing. He was no direct threat to the Romans, but they were dealing with a populace that was prone to resist Roman law and occupation. That populace was comprised mostly of Jews who felt threatened by Jesus and insisted upon the Roman authority to rid them of the heretic. Moreover, after he was condemned, they were given the opportunity to save him from the cross, but they chose to save a repeat offender thief instead. Jesus was executed in order to placate those who worshipped the God of Abraham, coincidentally and ironicly, the father of Jesus. In God We Trust? Perhaps. However, for a government to adopt such a motto, one should be wary of its intent. It is not so much an expression of faith, as it is an exercise of political gamesmanship.
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Apr 9, 2012 at 10:20 AM in reply to Joey
          Joey, you are exactly right about the crucifiction and how it happened. But, the process still reminds me of small town gossip, people who judge and see into other people no further than what everybody says.......
    • reply
      by The Judge on Apr 11, 2012 at 02:17 AM in reply to Amy
      Amy, this great majority of yours have been brainwashed since birth. Second, you christians run the country and no one dares publicly defy you. You are hardly the downtrodden . . .
  • by BEA Location: MAYBERRY on Mar 29, 2012 at 12:26 PM
    Obviously the more perfect way to show trust in God is to believe in your heart, confess with your mouth and display it through your actions. The only Bible ones may read is YOU, OK lay down your guns and truly Trust In God
    • reply
      by Logic on Mar 29, 2012 at 04:00 PM in reply to BEA
      Tried that once. Went to Church, clicked my heels and said "There's no place like home" over and over. Opened my eyes and I was still in OZ! But to be serious yes I did go to church, both as a child with my Grandma and as an adult to Victory Life w/ Duane Sheriff. Never got an answer from your God. I was serious about it to. No voices in my head. No manifestation of the holy spirit within me to carry me the rest of the way. I met God halfway...but never got a response or vindication for my efforts. So without a real internal change I just couldn't sustain the delusion. Finally came to the conclusion God doesn't exist..and if he does he didn't want my worship. Hasn't effected my life at all, however. Got 2 beautiful children and a loving wife. About to buy a home in the country and build a place to retire. I have no regrets. No guilt. And death scares me about as much as having surgery...same effect as far as I am concerned. Do explain, if you can, how our thoughts and memories of loved ones will survive death when they can't even survive Alzheimer's Disease.
      • reply
        by Anonymous on Mar 30, 2012 at 06:59 AM in reply to Logic
        The laws of thermodynamics state that "energy (matter) can not be created or destroyed, but only changed to another form." When you die every atom and molecule in you will continue to exist, in some way that perhaps we can't explain. You may be scattered all over the cosmos, you might become "dark matter", you may be in Heaven or Hell, but you will, along with thoughts and memories, continue in some form or fashion, whether you believe in God or not......
        • reply
          by Logic on Mar 30, 2012 at 10:57 AM in reply to
          Your thoughts and memories are stored chemically, not electrically. When you recollect a memory, you are reforming a chemical matrix which was imprinted at the time of the experience. Neurons, while bioelectrical in nature, manipulate the memories and thoughts. Regardless, your memories and thoughts require a brain to reside in. Destroy the brain and these chemicals are dispersed, losing the cohesive properties that retain memory, thoughts and thinking. Can you just have energy floating there in place without a battery to store it in for your car? Of course not. Same with your brain. Besides, if you say energy can not be created (or destroyed) then where were you when they built the pyramids? And why can't you remember the formation of the Earth and the rise of Dinosaurs? Cause you didn't exist and the energy you are now didn't either. So if you can explain how energy can be stored without a battery, then you might can explain how thoughts can be stored without a brain. The fact that we can suffer amnesia, insanity, depression, Alzheimer's Disease, intoxication is proof that our conciousness, thoughts and memories are only as good as the brain it resides in. Explain how someone with Alzheimer's who have lost all memories of themselves and loved ones will reaquire this energy after they die, if energy cannot be created as you say?
        • reply
          by Logic on Mar 31, 2012 at 03:27 PM in reply to
          And speaking of your thermodynamics, think about the statement you just made...that energy cannot be created or destroyed. You and I are now an individual, complete with his own thoughts, reasoning and "energy", if that is the state you want to call your consciousness and memories that goes on after you die. Yet once we were sperm and egg. Now which of THESE contained that unique individual "energy" currently calling themselves Anonymous? Obviously not both because you now obviously don't have a duplicate right? Now keep going backwards through your ancestors..breaking this "energy" down and down. You are going to get to Adam and Eve right? Or the first pair of previously single-celled organisms. There are over 6 Billion separate "energies" and counting on the planet currently. Wouldn't you say that energy, in fact, can be created?
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Apr 2, 2012 at 02:13 PM in reply to
          Matter can be converted into energy, but the atoms that matter consist of are not created or destroyed in the process chemically, electrically, or biologically. Both sperm cells and egg cells contain atoms that will exist after one dies. Those atoms may be scattered all over everywhere, but they will continue in some form or other.
        • reply
          by dumb as dirt on Apr 3, 2012 at 05:57 AM in reply to
          Logic, you are so smart! Seriously, how does one ever become so deluded that because they have some entry level understanding of physics they have the Universe and mystery of consciousness all figured out? Especially when every new discovery in quantum mechanics reveals that what's true at the observable atomic level is meaningless at the subatomic level with no way to explain the how and why? You have no idea what consciousness is, how the observable works or if it's is even truly 'real'. To express anything other than ultimate wonder about life is the epitome of arrogance and pride, and as most religions teach us because of human experience, along that path lies peril. I don't know the math involved, but clearly that isn't something that works out over time. Just take a look around. To disparage the best of human thoughts and beliefs about existence expressed through religion and philosophy derived from millenia of observation and experience is foolish. To know the truth doesn't require that one knows the details and just knowing the details doesn't bestow you with truth. On the spectrum of omnipotence you are discernibly no further along than the dirt you come from and on which you are able to stand and look upon because of some 'miracle' thanks to some unknown 'force'. Get over yourself.
        • reply
          by Logic on Apr 3, 2012 at 07:39 AM in reply to
          @ Dumb As Dirt Well then I apologize if my comments have been taken as such. In my profession I tend to analyze things often overly, even obsessively. I also can type very fast. Thoughts flow and I tend to babble. I realize my purely biological viewpoint on the mechanical nature of consciousness can be socially awkward in a predominately religious world. I am truly the small minority here! But I am always honest at least in my viewpoint.I try not to attack someone personally but rather their statements and ideas, as we should in public discourse like this. I see this as the modern equivalent of the Greek Forums in which citizens could stand in front of their peers and be given the opportunity to express their views openly, for praise or ridicule. Democracy requires it actually or we are truly lost...
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          by dumb as dirt on Apr 3, 2012 at 06:27 PM in reply to
          It's not just awkward socially in a religious world, it's also awkward in a logical, reasoned, educated world, and in no way suggesting that those worlds can't all overlap. If anyone 'one' truly understands what you pretended to know then we'd have to give him a title. I suggest 'God'. You seem like a decent sort, perhaps a little effort to exhibit humility and a willingness to tolerate other roads taken would serve you well. Knowing everything seems to be a tiresome and pointless existence to me, not that I would know from experience.
      • reply
        by BEA on Apr 5, 2012 at 01:43 PM in reply to Logic
        Logic, key words in your post " you met God HALFWAY... your internal change comes when you accept HIM by faith, half steppin never gets you the prize
        • reply
          by andy on Apr 5, 2012 at 03:37 PM in reply to BEA
          You must be assimilated. And she ain't kiddin' either. Some of the 'happiest' people I ever met were members of the Sun Yung Moon cult (Moonies). They had to have someone tell them when to go to the bathroom, but they were pretty much blissed out ( or starved, not sure which). But seriously, those who give it all up to God, as they see it, can be well adjusted and happy. Forget about what you can't change, don't obsess over disappointments or tragedy, don't carry grudges, let the future come to you because it's all God's plan. Makes things easier and there's something to be said for it. Of course it isn't required because you can pretty much do that without the religion aspect, but they have a pretty effective industry dedicated to the cause already and will suck you right in if you need it.
        • reply
          by Logic on Apr 6, 2012 at 05:58 AM in reply to BEA
          Right..halfway in that I did my part, but your God didn't meet me the rest of the way. I've always been told that all you have to do is seek out God and he will complete the journey. Nope. Didn't work on me. Apparently, I am expected to just believe all this stuff in the Bible right off the bat at face value! It is very hard to believe that a Three Toed Sloth walked from wherever Noah's Ark landed in the Middle East all the way to the Amazon in South America (He would have had to SWIM the Atlantic Ocean!) at 25 feet per day!!
        • reply
          by Biffco on Apr 10, 2012 at 06:48 AM in reply to BEA
          Resistance is futile... you will be assimilated...
      • reply
        by Bea on Apr 9, 2012 at 10:05 AM in reply to Logic
        Keywords again Logic " I've always been TOLD... never allow anyone to TELL you, read it for yourself, there is no scripture that states you do this and God will do this, that goes against faith. I realize that you must believe in God before you can take the Bible literally, so that may be in a realm you can't concieve. As far as being asimilated one meaning of that term is to integrate new knowledge or information with what is already known, I already know that I had nothing to do with my existence or this worlds existence, it was a higher power than myself, my faith is in God through Christ Jesus, I choose to follow the one that has conquered death unlike the Moonies.
  • by Logic on Mar 28, 2012 at 01:31 PM
    The Great Mark Twain said it best, but I am paraphrasing: "When I die I will be exactly where I was when the Pyramids were built, when Lincoln gave the Gettysburg Address..." Each one of us when we die will return to the void from which we came. Oh I would love to believe that I'll be in some heaven with my dead Grandpa and Grandma and sings songs about Jesus all day and fly around with angels...but apparently I was not provided with the resources to do so. This thing called a brain gets in the way! I just can't fool it into believing bronze-age religions. It asks too many questions!!!
    • reply
      by Bea on Apr 9, 2012 at 10:23 AM in reply to Logic
      Ever heard the phrase "to smart for your own good" the brain sometimes blinds the simplicity of things. To me it takes far more faith to believe that all of sudden "big bang" and we are here. A Divine Prescence is more logical, if that Word can be used in reference to a super natural force
      • reply
        by Logic on Apr 10, 2012 at 09:47 AM in reply to Bea
        A divine presence is only logical if you think in human terms...that everything requires a creator. You believe that God is eternal right? That he did not have anything that created him right? Well there you go! I feel that same way about the Big Bang! Why add all that additional dogma and ceremony to what we BOTH basically believe?! So if you can can believe that God created himself, or required no creator, then you are no different than those that believe in the Big Bang...you just are adding personality and purpose to it.
        • reply
          by Bea on Apr 10, 2012 at 03:21 PM in reply to Logic
          Touche, good argument to an extent, we part ways on the personality, the purpose?, there has to be a purpose, and too much points to a Creator
  • by Biffco Location: Sherman on Mar 28, 2012 at 10:42 AM
    Even if God does exist, why trust him? History has shown, if he really is in charge, him to be capricious and cruel. "He" regularly rewards evil and punishes virtue. And he gives kids cancer. Why does an all-powerful being need constant praise and worship? Is his self-esteem so bad that he can't go one day without being praised? I wouldn't trust God to wash my car. If he was a person, he would more than likely have many, many restraining orders against him. Putting your trust in God is a fools pursuit, as is all religion.
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Mar 28, 2012 at 02:01 PM in reply to Biffco
      If there is no God, why do you keep capitalizing His name as if He were an existing proper noun? Perhaps Satan has confused you with HIS need for praise. God allows us a choice....the devil won't.
      • reply
        by Logic on Mar 28, 2012 at 03:33 PM in reply to
        Why is Satan loose tempting people..deceiving people..and apparently, according to your bible, set upon us for thousands of years? Can't your loving God stop him? If I saw some sex offender loose in the playground among the children I love you can bet he would be attacked, driven out and stopped. But our immortal souls apparently have no such protection. Makes no sense. And even those that argue God loves us and WILL one day stop Satan, what good will that do the poor soul that is going to die tomorrow, having been deceived and tempted his whole life by your devil, that will be roasting in hell for eternity? Poor man never had a chance! Apparently the devil is given reign to run freely in the playground while this loving God watches patiently..."Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" - Epicurus, Greek Philosopher 270 BC. That remains to this day the most logical argument against the existence of a God I have ever seen. All the preaching I have ever witnessed (Yep, went to Duane Sheriff's little church for a few weeks!) has NEVER broken through that evil barrier Epicurus set up so long ago...
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          by Anonymous on Mar 29, 2012 at 09:29 AM in reply to Logic
          It takes more than a few weeks of ministry to understand the Gospel, and 270 BC? That means that Epicurus never heard of Jesus......
      • reply
        by Logic on Mar 29, 2012 at 01:00 PM in reply to
        @ Anonymous Please don't assume that Duane Sheriff is the ONLY source of the gospel I have ever heard. I have read the Bible, Old and New Testament, as well. But I think you missed the point: if you can't accept the idea of a God, how can you get to the particulars of a Jesus? Epicurus didn't need to hear about Jesus to propose his argument against a God. The Greeks had their Gods as well. He was speaking of the Royal God..the God that is suppose to lord over our daily lives and intervene occassionally. Regardless, how does reading about Jesus in the Bible make one a believer. If anything, it reaffirmed my natural atheism! Why would a God NEED to come to Earth and allow himself to be crucified to convince himself to forgive us of anything? But what really turned me off about Christianity, and all monotheistic religions in general, is the emphasis on obedience and faith over one's own reason and judgement. Case in point: Abraham. The Bible says he held his own son down at knifepoint and at the last second an angel stopped him from killing him...all because God was "testing his faith"? Really?! Ok..so that means God CANNOT read our thoughts and divine our true intentions? He has to conduct outside tests like this to check for believers? And if God CAN look into our minds and know our hearts, then wouldn't subjecting Abraham to this seem rather sadistic? Regardless, Abraham supposidly acted on obedience only. Sorry, but I can't trust people that defer their moral judgements to voices in their heads...or the words of some preacher! "Just following orders" was the defense the Nazi's used!!
      • reply
        by Biffco on Apr 1, 2012 at 10:36 AM in reply to
        Harry Potter, Santa Clause, Rumpelstiltskin... Even fictional characters names are capitalized. "God" with a capital "G" is just the name most people have for the fictional man in the sky that they pray to. It's not confusion - just proper grammar. I know some call him Jehovah, but the vast majority simply call him "God," so it's capitalized as his name. Oh, and I'm confused alright. Most everybody is. But it's nothing to do with the fictional Satan. It's just that life is complex and confusing. It's when people start professing that they have all the answers (religion) that I start to get skeptical.
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      by Anonymous on Mar 29, 2012 at 02:15 PM in reply to Biffco
      Why trust the knot-heads who proclaim the "big bang theory" or the search for "dark matter" ? Those things are'nt proven, only in that so many believe what they are told. Even if true, very few would ever actually understand any of it, except in faith. What's the difference?
      • reply
        by Logic on Mar 29, 2012 at 03:47 PM in reply to
        Well The Big Bang Theory is based on Hubble's observations of the expanding universe. He proved, through photographic evidence compiled over the course of many years, that the Universe is expanding by measuring the redshift in the light spectrum of distant stars. Once he established the general direction of this movement, all you have to do is run the whole thing in reverse and you arrive at a singularity...the detonation point of the Big Bang. The fact that the Universe is expanding isn't even arguable. Its been proven. You can actually observe it happening. The real question is what triggered the Big Bang? That is the "gap" that the Christians seem to run to because its provides another place in the shadows for their God to hide. Science has been chasing God into the shadows since before the Church condemned Galileo for proposing the Earth travels around the Sun! We now know, for instance, that epilepsy is NOT demonic possession, but misfiring neurons in the brain. We know that the Grand Canyon was formed by the Colorado River flowing for thousands of years, not Noah's Flood. I'm sure we may never fully understand what triggered the Big Bang, but we can see that it happened. As for Dark Matter, again just a theory. No intelligent person is taking it a gospel and it is not presented as such. But it IS theoretically possible. The math is there to support it. But NONE of these concepts are taken in faith like your religion...and it will be SCIENCE, not religion, that ultimately proves, or disproves them.
      • reply
        by Biffco on Apr 1, 2012 at 09:43 AM in reply to
        Gravity is a theory, but I don't see you jumping out of buildings.
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          by Learned better the hard way. on Apr 4, 2012 at 08:09 AM in reply to Biffco
          I jumped out of a hay loft when I was about six-years-old, and I learned real quick about gravity.....it's real!
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        by Biffco on Apr 1, 2012 at 10:41 AM in reply to
        The difference is that religion is based on authority and science is based on logic and observation. Science will always win because it works. There is an anti-science undercurrent in this country and there always has been. Democracy has been misinterpreted to mean that your ignorance is equal to my knowledge. And it most certainly is not.
  • by Joey Location: Denison on Mar 28, 2012 at 09:03 AM
    Didn't Motto coach the Mavs way back when?
  • by Biffco Location: Sherman on Mar 27, 2012 at 02:50 PM
    Our fathers were our models for God. Our fathers bailed. So what does that tell us about God? God doesn't love you, he probably doesn't even like you. In fact he more than likely hates you! I say this all tongue-in-cheek, of course, because there is no God. Every day the delusional behavior of "Christians" makes me thankful that I'm an Atheist!
    • reply
      by Anonymous on Mar 27, 2012 at 03:31 PM in reply to Biffco
      Be thankful now Biffco! You won't be thankful when you die! Just because you don't understand or believe, doesn't mean it isn't true. Sorry!
      • reply
        by Logic on Mar 27, 2012 at 05:30 PM in reply to
        Your consciousness is predicated on the condition of the brain. People with Alzheimer's know this intimately. As the brain deteriorates, so does the persons consciousness, memories, awareness, ect until the physical body dies. Explain how if your thoughts and memories can't survive Alzheimer's Disease, or even a severe brain injury from a car accident, how are they to survive when the brain is completely destroyed? I am an atheist and have no more fear of death than having a surgery...forever. Now if there IS a God and he decides I need to burn in a hell forever because I did not believe in him, how much of my suffering is worth the non-worship he lost from me? A billion years? A hundred-billion years? Besides, if God was self-evident we would all believe and have the same faith. As it stands God is subjective and invisible...
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        by Biffco on Mar 28, 2012 at 09:41 AM in reply to
        Actually, that's EXACTLY what it means. The burden of proof for a declarative statement is on the one making the statement, not the ones who say the statement is false. If you say "God exists," then the burden of proof is on you. And so far, since the beginning of civilization, through a myriad of religions and faith systems, no one has proven beyond a reasonable doubt that any god has ever existed. If I say that I have an invisible dragon in my garage that controls the weather, It's up to me to prove that the dragon exists. If I can't, then the default position is that it DOES NOT exist. YOU not being able to prove it DOESN'T exist does not make it real. Same with your God. Until you can present logical, concrete, and repeatable evidence that "He" exists, the default position is that he does not.
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          by Jerry on Mar 28, 2012 at 10:45 AM in reply to Biffco
          The invisible dragon DOES exist, and I alone am his designated representative. Await further instruction or face certain doom.
      • reply
        by Biffco on Mar 28, 2012 at 11:32 AM in reply to
        I won't be anything when I die. Except for dead, of course.
        • reply
          by Logic on Mar 28, 2012 at 05:05 PM in reply to Biffco
          You will be where you were when the pyramids were built...when the Civil War raged in America...
        • reply
          by Anonymous on Mar 29, 2012 at 12:34 PM in reply to Biffco
          Everything with a definition and a name is something, even dead..........
        • reply
          by Logic on Mar 31, 2012 at 07:14 AM in reply to Biffco
          A definition or name is an arbitrary title designated by man to identify ourselves and categorize concepts for the purpose of distinction. You can define a human as "a bag of mostly water" and you can name that bag "Xhgtysdgdjkh"...these designations mean nothing to the physical properties of the object, or human. And they certainly don't have any relevance beyond the realm in which they are defined and mean something...in this case a living person opposed to a dead one.
        • reply
          by Biffco on Apr 2, 2012 at 06:50 AM in reply to Biffco
          When I die, I will be meat. Nothing more.
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