Proposed hunting rules concern sportsmen

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Posted: 11:27 PM Aug 19, 2008
Last Updated: 9:37 AM Aug 20, 2008
Reporter: Rashi Vats
Email Address: rashi.vats@kxii.com

94 comments

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GRAYSON COUNTY, Tex. -- If you know anything about the local hunting scene, you probably already know that Grayson County is one of the few in Texas that ban hunting whitetail deer with firearms. That could change if one landowner gets his way though, and some sportsmen aren't happy about that.

Some sportsmen tell us that the proposal to change the hunting rules in Grayson County is the idea of a single landowner from Ft. Worth who has around 2,000 acres in Grayson County.

He made his request with the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
Many members of the Whitetail Association bonded together to figure out the next step to keep what's known as archery-only deer hunting.

"We're taking a multi facet approach. We are meeting and we think the best thing we can do is to contact the executive directors and commissioners of the Texas Parks and Wildlife. Also different biologists and higher-ups of the department,” said Brock Benson, President of Grayson County Whitetail Association.

Hunters weren't alone at Tuesday night's meeting. One wildlife biologist offered his thoughts.

"The whitetail deer is special in Texas. They are the number one sought out trophy animal in North America,” said Dan VanSchaik, a wildlife biologist.

“I do consulting all over the United States, and Northern Grayson County has a good as natural genetics as I have ever seen. That’s why I have much emotion here and passion."

It's a passion that many hunters share with citizens.

"Rifle season in the short term is going to increase hunter participation in a year or two but in the long term it is going to wipe out the deer heard,” said Benson.

Hunting season starts in the next six weeks. If the proposal of rifle season was passed, it would take into effect for the hunting season next year.

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Comments are posted from viewers like you and do not always reflect the views of this station.

Posted by: Charlie on Sep 30, 2008 at 08:47 PM
I will keep that in mind Grayson Archer. I shoot the crossbow because it is more like shooting a rifle. It took me many years to perfect shooting a rifle. Now I have had to move to a crossbow, and when I get that perfected I will move to a regular bow. I don't have a upper body disability. I shoot a Excalibur Exomax with a recurve. They shoot faster and hit harder than the ones with the compound bows attached. I use a micro fiber peep sight. It is a great weapon. They hunt rhinos with this thing in Africa. I can't wait to find a hog. I would take a nice deer if the chance provides itself though. You know beggars can't be choosers! Hope you have a great season Grayson Archer. I will probaly hunt a buddies of mine place over in Erath county. He has found a buck that he is dying for me to take. He has been asking me to come over for opening day for the past 2 months. So good hunting and stay safe.

Posted by: grayson archer on Sep 29, 2008 at 03:42 PM
You should really test shoot one of the new matthews or bowtech bows, you would fall in love with them, the advances in vertical bow technology the in the last 5 years has been amazing. I have been told all the technology has gone to compound bows and not crossbows because that is where the market is. Also charlie it is legal to use a draw lock in october, a device that locks you bow at full draw like a crossbow, but to me it takes all the challenge out of it.

Posted by: Charlie on Sep 27, 2008 at 10:17 PM
Thank you, but I can't hunt til general season. I use a crossbow. I still have another month to woo the big ones into my area. I have been putting out some alfalfa for them.Apparently they like it. I hope everyone had a great opening day in Grayson County. Leave a few for us late season guys.

Posted by: Concered Citizen Location: Grayson Cty on Sep 25, 2008 at 01:13 PM
Good luck this weekend Charlie, hope you stick a big one!

Posted by: Charlie on Sep 21, 2008 at 09:43 PM
Erik I accept your appologies. I would also like to appoligize to anyone my tone might of offended. Like I said before, this is a difference of oppinion and not personal. We are all entitled to our oppinions.

Posted by: Erik Location: Howe on Sep 19, 2008 at 08:50 PM
Well Charlie I give you my appologies. I am sorry for saying those things about you. I went over the edge. Hope you accept these words. It was not civil of me. You are right. My opinions will stand strong in what I believe is good for the counties residents, deer herd and management of our deer. I will show for them in a more respectful manner.

Posted by: Resident on Sep 18, 2008 at 11:49 PM
AH HA! You got me. Yes, I'm a resident of Grayson and I pay taxes, I've only hunted the refuge and I've never shot a deer in Grayson County. Not a land or business owner either. I am an observer though of what Grayson's approach has achieved. They've been successful at maintaining a small, healthy huntable herd by application of a harvest by archery only. Guess I was just observing that you do not live here (or just got here) and you went right to work changing things to exploit what was here already, due to the stewardship of Grayson County's residents.

Posted by: Charlie on Sep 17, 2008 at 11:11 PM
"Resident", I know I said earlier that I was done discussing this topic,but what in your statement has to do with hunting? From your remarks you are worried about your financial gain and not really the conservatin of the herd. Is this the real reason you don't want a gun season? Stay on subject. If you are going to be honest just say that we as archery hunters want to protect our honey hole. I can respect that. I want freedom of choice to hunt the way I want to hunt.(This statemnt is for Erik) I am a rifle hunter and I want a taste of the Grayson County honey pot. Erik I saw where you called me a SOB! You said that on Texas Bow hunters web site. You call me a trophy hunter, I cannot deny that. But my biggest trophy to date is a old 6 year old 3 point buck. So no worries I have yet to find my trophy. I refuse to pay for one. That SOB remark is not civil sir, this is not personal. It is just a difference of oppinion! Good night everyone.

Posted by: Resident on Sep 17, 2008 at 10:50 AM
Quote, "I will be a tax payer there one day." This person IS NOT a resident and DOES NOT pay taxes in this county, but can potentially change policy that WILL directly effect in a negative way the VERY REASON many people own, lease, and invest in Grayson??? This is classic. A person who isn't from this area wants to change something about it simply because it doesn't look like where they came from. They haven’t contributed to something, but they see an opportunity to exploit it without concern of the damages their actions may cause. Archery is part of Grayson's culture, part of our identity. The archery management approach has been highly successful and someone comes along that wants to change it for the sake of stirring the pot without regard of the impact it will have to the resources, lifestyle or financial investments of many of Grayson's citizens. The current regulations should not change. Grayson should remain “archery only” in regards to harvesting deer.

Posted by: grayson archer on Sep 15, 2008 at 09:50 PM
Mr. charlie I too cannot believe you have said on a public blog you have a potential record breaker on your property. Do not underestimate the power of the internet there are literaly thousands on eyes on this blog and trust me several are probably poachers, since your full name has been made public, you property location/gps coords and aerial photos are just a few clicks away for those who know the right websites to do a search on.

Posted by: Garrett Location: Grayson County on Sep 15, 2008 at 08:26 PM
Charlie, I'm curious how many bucks or does have you taken with a crossbow, how far did they go? Was it a long recovery, or were they easy to recover?

Posted by: Resident on Sep 14, 2008 at 05:49 PM
That's the thing about Grayson. It doesn't take much to figure out where you are talking about because people know where the deer are found in established numbers. Only certain locations hold that distinction and that is the issue. Get ready, if you get what you want you'll hear a lot of shooting around you (multiple shots at that)...simply because that is where the deer are…today in 2008. Let me assure you the varmint hunters are out there, you just haven't heard them.

Posted by: Wes Location: Dallas on Sep 14, 2008 at 03:13 AM
i live in dallas county and even though there are deer here there is no season for them. why? because thats what the experts have chosen. they make the rules and regulations for certain counties based on what is best. those of you saying its a right we have..you are wrong. its a privilege.

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 14, 2008 at 01:11 AM
You have noticed that I have made no mention of location of our place. Grayson county is somewhere around 940 square miles. Everyone has been asuming that it is around the Hagerman. I have never said and I will never say what area I hunt in. So the poachers that find my hunting ground is either really smart or really lucky. You know I have hunted early morning and late night for coyotes and varmints and I have never heard a gun shot, save for my own. How many poachers are caught each year? Who is the biggest poacher in Grayson county? Don't act like you don't know. Poachers are like crack heads, they may get caught but that does not break them. It gets under their skins and they just have to do it. I think we have beat this dead horse til he won't run anymore. You don't agree with me and I don't agree with you. Let's agree to disagree and let's all just get along.I am a rifle hunter. We will let the commission decide. Happy hunting guys.Tick Tock! 13 days til bow season.

Posted by: Erik Location: Howe on Sep 13, 2008 at 11:50 PM
I know what a cull buck is. You sound like a big city deer snob talking about "feeding" this deer and making him into some B&C book buck. Thats the amazing thing about this county is that they get like that anyway without humans supplementing their diets accept our agriculture . You commented in one of your post that we are just a bunch of trophy hunters. Looks like you are guilty. Sounds like you are after some $$. I am not trying to be rude, I am just sick of people in this world who have to get upset over stuff and make everybody else suffer because of ONE person didn't like something. You don't even live in Grayson county.Lets turn it around! What if somebody wasn't happy with something you enjoy or your views. Just one person. All the others that also enjoy the same thing you do, but hey, one person doesn't like it. So it has to change for eveyone... Selfish comes to mind pretty fast, arrogance and jealousy. I am not pointing those words at you. Just take a walk in our shoes

Posted by: Grayson Hunter Location: Grayson County on Sep 13, 2008 at 11:38 AM
Charlie I guess you know you have just indicated to a lot of people where they should be hunting for the next B&C. Remember you just have access to 1400 acres and hunt a 100. What about all that precious land around you? People are going to be getting access and also hunting the Hagerman area around you. I can't believe you stated the information you did on this bog. Wonder how many hunters will see this law abiding and non law abiding???? How far does a buck travel during the rut? I hope your hard work and feeding pays off and you are the lucky one who bags this guy legally. Best of luck enjoy him why you can.

Posted by: Concerned Citizen Location: Grayson County on Sep 13, 2008 at 11:02 AM
Brilliant, Charlie. Advertise your young Boone and Crockett so he can get poached. Do you understand that opening Grayson County to rifle hunting will only make it easier to poach these deer by making it easier for poachers to cover their tracks? Do you understand that a person who is willing to cross your fence line in the middle of the night to kill your deer with a .22 and a spotlight does not care about your veiled threats against poachers? I hope you realize now that all the property surrounding your place just became subject to poaching and heavy hunting pressure. It sounds like the only reason you want a rifle season is so you can shoot a Boone and Crockett deer. Look at the record books--it's possible to do with archery equipment (real archery equipment) if you're willing to put in the time and effort. Frankly, it doesn't sound like you're concerned at all with proper herd management and wildlife conservation.

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 12, 2008 at 10:43 PM
First to answer Erik's question. A "cull" buck for Grayson County would be a spindly horned buck that may score a 90 that has marks all over him that has been beat around by every buck in the herd. I have pics of a buck that fits that discription. Then there is baby face. He is a tall tined wide buck with great mass that I think may be a great grandson of the famous big boy. He is only about 2 years old now and probaly goes 160 easy. In 3 more years of feeding him alfalfa and a high protein and calcium diet I think he may spank his great grandfather. He is my baby and I will groom him to be a great Boon and Crocket buck.Note if I catch poachers in my territory you will beg for a game warden. I treat poachers like varmints. Then I call the warden. Erik Grayson county is mine too. So I have a right to my opinion.I will be a tax payer there one day. To Each their own. GRayson County archer thank you I look foreward to future conversations. I will check out the web site there. Thank you.

Posted by: 20 Year Resident on Sep 12, 2008 at 09:28 PM
(Continued) Then you go on to discuss what you perceive as high fawn mortality from predators, BUT you also think we should invite a much more efficient form of harvesting deer into a county with limited deer density and distribution and well as fragmented habitat(remember selling farms) with definite future problems due to increased development? I know you see the issue here. Allowing a much more efficient harvest will have major effects upon this herd now and in the future. By the way, rifles ARE used for everything except deer (we know why) and there are some VERY avid predator hunters in the area. Invite them out to your place to do some work.

Posted by: 20 Year Resident on Sep 12, 2008 at 09:25 PM
Charlie, The more you post the more I think you need to work with us instead of against us. You wrote, "I only hunt about 100 acres or so of the farm. The rest is mainly crops. I do have a suggestion for all the hunters in the county. There are way too many predators in the county. Try using those rifles in the off season to thin them out. That will save several hundred fawns in the spring." Even if it was 5 acres it is still a part of 1400 acres. Add to that Ag production AND limited hunting? Bottom line, that increases whitetail population density. No wonder you have a lot deer. NOT THE NORM IN THIS COUNTY. (Continued)

Posted by: grayson archer on Sep 12, 2008 at 11:48 AM
Mr. charlie, we have learned alot from you as well, thank you for the civil conversation. You may already be aware of the website but you might check out texasbowhunter.com, and do a search on grayson county, there are several threads about this partiular topic, I know Mr. Benson is a regular contributer, we would all love to hear your side of the arguement, and continue the conversation there.

Posted by: Erik Location: Howe on Sep 11, 2008 at 09:08 PM
What is a cull buck. A cull buck to one person maybe a 3 1/2 year old six point, or maybe even 140 class 4 1/2 year old. I think the bow hunters of grayson county don't just shoot trophies. Other deer are taken. Things must go perfect when bow hunting, the odds favor the deer. Rifle Hunting will Destroy Grayson Counties deer herd. Look at all the big woods in Lamar County and The Grasslands in Fannin County how many record book deer do you hear come out of there? People shoot the first thing they see with antlers. Sad but true. Ruins quality deer hunting. Like the saying goes. If something isn't broke don't fix it. If you want to hunt deer in this county learn to shoot a bow. Adapt and overcome.You seem selfish in wanting to open a rifle season because "You can't shoot your rifle" Go buy a muzzleloader and go hunt the LBJ Grasslands. There are alot of deer there if thats all you want to do is just shoot deer. Leave Grayson County Alone!

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 11, 2008 at 09:00 PM
I called TPWD today and got the number of who to call to get a deer count. I think maybe they thought I meant for my family's place. Boy are they going to be surprised when I make this request. Dale, Thank you for the information."Grayson County Archer" I hunt with a cross bow and I love the way it shoots. I can put bolts side by side at 25 yards. That is way further than the animals I take usually are. I had a doe step on my foot last year.But I still love my Ruger No.1 falling block rifle. "Anonymous" I only hunt about 100 acres or so of the farm. The rest is mainly crops. I do have a suggestion for all the hunters in the county. There are way too many predators in the county. Try using those rifles in the off season to thin them out. That will save several hundred fawns in the spring. Coyotes and bobcats are responsible for a large number of fatalities among fawns. I can only shoot so many. I would like some help.I have learned quite alot of info from ya'll,biased or not. I'm not sur

Posted by: Erik Location: Howe on Sep 11, 2008 at 08:44 PM
I have hunted Grayson county most of my life. I agree with the low deer herd numbers. Sitting in the stand for a few days and not seeing a deer is the norm in Grayson county. You really have to scout and put your time in to better your odds. There are not that many deer around. I am proud to live in a bow only county. We don't need to be the same as the other counties. That is what is special about Grayson county, we are different. Charlie you say you are against High Fenced deer hutning ( I am too )but low quality deer herds from long rifle seasons and high pressure cause people to put up high fences to get the results they otherwise couldn't get. Charlie you also speak of doe harvest.. Well if there is a small herd of deer in the county why would somebody want to harvest the baby makers. Shooting a 4 1/2 year old buck or better does not hurt the deer herd very much, His genetics have been established over the course of his life. You speak of cull bucks as well,

Posted by: Dale Location: Denison on Sep 11, 2008 at 04:52 PM
Charlie, According to retired Grayson County Game Warden Sammy Brown (1960-1993)Grayson County had a 45 day deer season until 1960 or '61. Mr Brown said that the Legislature closed the deer season in Grayson County in '60 or '61 because there were so few deer.

Posted by: grayson archer on Sep 11, 2008 at 04:49 PM
Mr. charlie you should really try and take up archery if you haven't already, you would be hooked, and never want to pick a rifle up again. Like has been said before if you introduce rifles into grayson county, all the trophy bucks will be gone because rifle hunters are much more proficient. Grayson will end up like all other north texas counties, yes there will still be deer but the vast majority of bucks WILL be killed before the reach their prime. Even with antler restrictions implemented in grayson the deer quality would not be as great as it is now. I can tell you this from personal experience on public lands that have implemented archery only policy, after the gun hunting was banned the deer population and buck quality thrived, a good reverse example is hunt county, years ago they finally introduced rifle hunting and the deer quality and numbers plunged. Would you rather continue seeing monster bucks with archery only or only seeing small basket rack bucks with a rifle season.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 11, 2008 at 01:06 PM
Charlie, Did you ever consider the reason that you see a lot of deer is because you hunt a 1400 acre ranch with very limited hunting pressure? That is not the normal situation for most of the people of Grayson County. Yes, you ruffled feathers because you evidently did not take the time to research why Grayson is CURRENTLY archery only (bow/crossbow). What Grayson has now is the result of a communities self developed approach to hunting and it was worked well even though we have a limited deer herd restricted to the Red River area, Hagerman and creek bottoms. Right now, we have NOW what other counties can only dream of and work towards. By implementing a rifle season all of what has been accomplished and promised is brought into doubt.

Posted by: Anonymous on Sep 10, 2008 at 09:15 PM
Well Lynn can you tell me when deer hunting was originally banned in Grayson County and why? Because all of the counties in Texas had a whitetail season at one time. I am real curious to know if it is not the reason that I was given. I hope everyone knows that I did not file that petition to ruffle anyones feathers. I just want to be able to use the weapon of my choice to hunt my favorite prey which is the whitetail. I am sorry to tell you it all comes down to habitat and there is a huntable habitat in Grayson county. I would like to know how you go about getting a county wide deer survey done though. I will call them tomorrow and find out how and if it is possible. Let's Count some deer!!

Posted by: Lynn Location: Denison on Sep 10, 2008 at 10:22 AM
Sorry, Charlie, that's not correct. I was here reporting on this in the 1990s. Check with TPWD game warden Dale Moses who was at those two hearings and see if I'm not telling you the truth. By the way, the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department that you called, let me tell you how accurate they are. When the first spring turkey season opened here in Grayson County, they had it in their printed regulations that a person could check in one Eastern turkey at the Grayson County check stations. Just one problem - TPWD stocked Rio Grandes, not Easterns in the county. I called them, told them, and they told me I didn't know what I was talking about. A few hours later, they were backtracking. As for a deer survey, I highly agree sir. Let's count 'em - I know of at least one biologist who disagrees whole heartedly with TPWD and has data to back up his claims. Let's count some deer!

Posted by: Motivated Location: Sherman on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:28 PM
This is not an issue of rifle hunting versus archery hunting. This is an issue regarding a citizenry's ability to self determine thier laws... and a comparably minor one at that. In my experience recent community support has been overwhelmingly for continuing to remain an archery only county. That is a shared sentiment among landowners, non-landowners, hunters and non-hunters. Will the state listen to the citizens or force the issue? Why?

Posted by: 20 Year Resident Location: Grayson County on Sep 9, 2008 at 11:23 PM
Charlie, I respect your right to submit the request and the fact that you have posted here in response to our concerns. I welcome the opportunity to sit down and discuss this issue with you further as stewards and hunters that share a common concern in promoting the well-being of our Grayson County white-tailed deer herd. Instead of working in opposition let’s work together in support of the herd and the preservation of a uniquely successful approach to management that was developed and is supported by concerned hunters of Grayson County. One option that might be explored could be MLD permits to manage your property as you see fit while preserving the community supported archery only approach to management. I look forward to an opportunity to speak with you about this and other options. I am a regular citizen, not a rich man nor a landowner, just a hunter that believes we have been entrusted with these resources to practice responsible stewardship.

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 9, 2008 at 09:23 PM
Lynn, No sir, I am not misinformed seriously or other wise. Some how part of my post was left off or removed from the original. It should of included that hunting in Grayson county was brought to a halt in the 1960's when they started allowing people to build around the lakes. Those are the people from Dallas that I was talking about in my first post. I know this to be true because I asked the TPWD why hunting had been banned in the first place when I called down there to see how I could get it changed from archery only. This small herd excuse is getting old. Maybe we should request a county wide deer survey and put it to rest once and for all. I bet there are more deer then you think. What do you say Lynn? Just call down to TPWD in Austin and ask them who you need to speak to that will get the deer survey done. As a hunter I would find that a great way to spend the dollars I invest in conservation every year in hunting and fishing. So give them a call.

Posted by: Old Deer Hunter Location: Sherman on Sep 9, 2008 at 07:52 PM
Charlie, not good when you put out bad information. I've lived in Grayson County for over 60 yrs. and there never has been a firearm deer season. Now the guys from Dallas may have thought "they got hunting in Grayson county banned", but that my friend is not true. I've hunted all types of game in Grayson Co. Call a Grayson Game Warden to verify if you don't believe me. Evidently you have decided to come full circle in your philosophy- first "banned hunting in Grayson Co." because of the concern with hunters and firearms" (back several years ago according to you), to 2008 and you want to bring firearms back? Sounds more like you see $$'s in leasing your 1,400 acres to some DFW guys or maybe you just can't hit that good buck at 40 yds. with a crossbow so you need to be able to take that 250 to 300 yd. shot with a rifle. Maybe you haven't thought of the sight of tower blinds around the perimeter of your property. Grayson is a great testimonial to whitetail deer hunting,leave us alone

Posted by: Lynn Location: Denison on Sep 9, 2008 at 05:31 PM
Charlie, you are seriously misinformed. I was at both public hearings in the 1990s when the TPWD showed up. Were you there? First, TPWD proposed a firearms season for Grayson County in the mid 1990s and nearly 100 people showed up for that public hearing at the Grayson County Courthouse. A couple of dozen or more people spoke up that night, not a single one was in favor of opening up a firearms season in Grayson County due to the negative effect it would have on our small but high quality deer herd. Several years later, a group of local sportsmen petitioned TPWD to see about opening a bowhunting only general season so that the local bucks could be hunted without too much negative effect on the local herd (archery success rates are less than 20 percent). Again, nearly 100 residents showed up and of the two dozen or more comments made that night, every single one was in favor of opening a general season here restricted to archery and crossbow gear.

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 4, 2008 at 09:09 PM
Continued from previous post: A bunch of land owners from Dallas did not want hunters running around during deer season with firearms around their weekend cabins so they got hunting in Grayson county banned. So, see it had nothing to do with the deer herds health and population. Grayson counties human population needs to be controlled. The deer population is just fine except for some cull bucks and does that have not been "CULLED" by the hunters of Grayson county. I feel that there is too much trophy hunting that goes on with bow hunters and they sometimes fail to do their share to cull out undesirable bucks and old does because they feel that they are wasting their time when they could be going after a trophy. Ask Mr.Benson if he filled all of his doe tags this past season? Ask him if he filled any of his doe tags this past season? Let me know what he says. The only tag I filled this season was a doe tag. Which one did he fill? Grayson county is no different than any other farm area

Posted by: Charlie Location: Ft.Worth on Sep 4, 2008 at 08:47 PM
Hello all. I am the guy who started the petition to have a rifle season. For all of you wondering I am not rich at all and besides being a rifle hunter I also shoot a cross bow. The land belongs to my family not me and it is not 2000 acres, it is 1400. I hunt Grayson county because it is free I can't afford to pay for a big expensive high fenced lease. I would like to add that the above story is completely wrong save for the part where I would like for the rifle season to be implemented. If you are worried about the deer herd, quit selling your land to all these hobby ranchers and horse people who come in a fragment it up. Also for the people who think I am some "City Slicker". I grew up in the country. I graduated from a six man football school. I started shooting when I was 7 and started hunting around age 15.I dislike high fence ranches and think they are the death to fair chase hunting. The reason hunting was banned in Grayson county was because of a bunch (See next post.

Posted by: OLD MAN Location: VAN ALSTYNE on Aug 26, 2008 at 11:32 AM
IT IS ONLY RIGHT IF YOU HAVE A DEER SEASON, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO HUNT WITH WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE. FROM A SPEAR TO A HIGH POWERED WEAPON. A SHOTGUN SLUG RIOCHETS FUTHER THAN A 30-06 DOES, READ OUTDOOR LIFE. BESIDES ONLY A FEW DECIDE IF WE HAVE A GUN SEASON SO PUT IT ON THE BALLET IN NOVEMBER.

Posted by: ronnie Location: oklahoma on Aug 24, 2008 at 02:10 AM
Open more places in Texas to hunt with a rifle and then ya'll can stay in Texas and kill all of your deer instead of coming to Oklahoma and killing all of our deer. Ruin your own deer hunting instead of someone elses, THANK YOU.

Posted by: Curious Location: denison on Aug 24, 2008 at 12:10 AM
Could it be that the boe hunters want to keep it this way so their hunting leases will not go up ?With the county growing like it is it,It may not be able to support the deer population that it already has, so maybe they should think about allowing a short rifle season, or black powder.

Posted by: grayson on Aug 23, 2008 at 01:33 PM
"Initiative is the only obstacle to hunting with archery equipment. " That and lazyness, those rifle hunters out there that put down bowhunter and call us indians should take a look at the advancements that have been made to achery in just the last 5 year. Once you try bowhunting you will be hooked and never want to pick up that gun again. Just remember achery is a much faster growing sport than rifle hunting, due to increased urban sprawl and safety limited range weapons are the future of deer hunting.

Posted by: mother Location: denison on Aug 23, 2008 at 09:34 AM
am i wrong or isn't this land close to the location denison is planning to build the new high school? could someone let me know because if it is i would say that that may cause a problem. YES I AM ALSO A HUNTER. thanks for any info

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 23, 2008 at 12:48 AM
Ardmore, your comments do not describe the situation as it is in Grayson. Why change when it has been working very succesfully? Grayson has what other counties are trying to achieve. What evidence or forecast exists that supports requiring a change? Finally, deer can be harvested with archery equipment. Initiative is the only obstacle to hunting with archery equipment.

Posted by: Anonymous Location: pottsboro on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:44 PM
yeah i'm a real hunter, just what we need hunters and outdoorsman not sticking together. I hunt bow, rifle, and black powder and proud of it. I do not think grayson county can handle a rifle season just keep it archery only it seems to work good. To yeah i'm a real hunter think about if texas and oklahoma had no rifle hunters it would be over populated with deer and my family would be hungry.

Posted by: a Location: ardmore on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:50 PM
I think they should be able to shoot them with a gun. But limit the amount they can shoot. Deer are over populating. And it cuts down on the number of wrecks. Those deer don't think about you when they bounce in front of your car. Also this man is probably tired of them in his fields after working hard to keep them up.

Posted by: Leroy Location: Sherman on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:47 PM
Just a thought.....If a rifle season is allowed, just think of how much more landowners can charge for a lease then!! I think it's a money thing, you can charge more for rifle leases than bow only leases. I agree with those who hunt the old fashion way, you put your time in scouting, learning the deer, no feeders, no bait, just good old fashioned hunting. I paid to hunt a game ranch once years ago. You sit in the stand(any stand doesn't matter which one) and the owner comes by dropping corn from the auto feeder on his truck and viola!!! 5 minutes later you got deer all around you. So unfair. I'll never do it again. I like to think I'm a sportsman and hunter not a killer. Lets leave it like it is.

Posted by: Reva50 Location: Ardmore on Aug 22, 2008 at 06:04 PM
Too funny! My opinion is that all whitetail deer that have firearms should be hunted down and jailed. They have no business having firearms. Can you see those deer trying to pull the triggers? A very dangerous situation indeed!

Posted by: Grumpy Old Man Location: Denison on Aug 22, 2008 at 04:42 PM
yeah i'm a real hunter, I’m not sure I understand why you are getting all riled up. What you describe is what I consider hunting. Getting out there and matching wits with the animal, that’s what it's all about. So what's your beef with what I said? I’ve put my time in, in the bush and on the trail so I feel I’m well qualified to enter this discussion.

Posted by: yeah i'm a real hunter on Aug 22, 2008 at 01:32 PM
Shooting a deer from 250 yards away requires no hunting skills whether you use feeders or not. Many of us hunt Hagerman and there are no feeders allowed. We find deer the hard way. Grumpy old man you apparantly know very little about hunting. Have you ever bowhunted? Have you ever experienced how difficult it is to even get an arrow loosed when the deer is 12 yards in front of you and it's keen senses seem to catch your every move before you even make it? The amount of movement required to shoot a bow makes it very challenging to get a shot off after you have done the daunting task of getting with bow range of an overly sensitive animals with much keener senses than your own. Now tell me again about the challenge of shooting an unsuspecting deer with a rifle from a 1/4 mile away. I do not believe you are qualified to have a voice in this discussion.

Posted by: Grumpy Old Man Location: Denison on Aug 22, 2008 at 11:18 AM
Better yet, get rid of your feeders and stands and try actually HUNTING the animal. Whether you use a "stick and string," blackpowder, or a rifle the real satisfaction comes from having earned your kill.

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 22, 2008 at 10:32 AM
There isn't any solid reasoning for change. Pick up a bow or a crossbow and be a part of what is happening. Grayson is unique among Texas counties due to the unique approach to hunting and it has been very successful. Why change it especially when the impact of a probable increased harvest has not been studied?

Posted by: Anonymous Location: sherman on Aug 22, 2008 at 07:10 AM
They should have a muzzle loader / shotgun season for a week or so. They can study this issue further ,There seems to be quite a bit of support for a gun season of some kind ! It should be placed on the ballot this November !!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: JK Location: Grayson County on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:49 PM
No reason for a rifle season. Tell the underachiever to pick out a bow and try killing one the hard way. You'll get more satisfaction out of downing one with the stick and string.

Posted by: WOS on Aug 21, 2008 at 04:00 PM
It would be in the grayson county landowners best interest to keep it archery only if they want to continue to have trophy deer and benefit financially from it. If a rifle season is openened grayson will become just like the counties that surround it(don't believe me do a little research on what happened after they opened a rifle season in hunt county). Todays modern high powered rifles are too effective and texas deer season it too long and this has caused the deer herd in many texas counties to be poor. TPWD need to rethink the lengthy season and consider creating more archery only counties around grayson. I speak from experience I hunt a public land area that has been archery only for 10 years and I can't even beging to explain how much improved the deer #'s and quality are. I am not trying to be an elitist here but we as hunters are killing too many deer in north texas, and the reason is because rifles are so effective today.

Posted by: Dookey Location: Shermboro on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:54 PM
I don't really have a dog in this hunt, but I sure do see deer now, where I used to not see them. In fact, and you mat say I'm lying, I saw a deer in Sherman on Rusk St., one block north of Houston. That was about 6 years ago. There used to not be any deer (in the '80's) along Hwy.56, between Sherman & Whitesboro. Now there is...?

Posted by: bubba redneck Location: sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:44 PM
opps!!!! forgot to say "it sucks to be you rifle hunter your paying more than twice as much for one year of out of state hunting and fishing than i'm paying for one year of hunting and fishing in both okla and texas....since i am a texas resident now..

Posted by: bubba redneck Location: sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 03:36 PM
oh i'm sorry let me explain myself..since i grew up an okie my parents saw the forsight of buying me a combination lifetime hunting and fishing license for only 270.00 for my 16th b-day..yes i'm an old fart...so i hunt in okla for free...i never stated if okla had more hunting days than texas i was just saying that okla has plenty of gun days to harvest deer for the freezer....sorry but i don't see anywhere where i made it sound like okla had more days than texas..

Posted by: Anonymous Location: sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 01:26 PM
Hunt down brushy creek North of Sadler TX, Its full of Deer !!!! Public Hunting !!!!!!

Posted by: JMO on Aug 21, 2008 at 12:10 PM
bubba redneck. The vast majority of Texas has more of a rifle season than Oklahoma. I hunt in a Texas county where I can take 5 deer. I have a month of bow only and over 2 months of general season where I can hunt with any legal weapon. You make it sound like Oklahoma has a longer season and more opportunities but that is incorrect other than a few Texas counties. Rifle you don't have to pay for an out of state license. Just hunt an adjacent county where it is allowed.

Posted by: Rifle Hunter Location: Sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 11:12 AM
bubba redneck, i too hunt in Oklahoma but it sure does suck paying for an out of State license.

Posted by: bubba redneck Location: sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 10:03 AM
this is why i hunt in okla. i don't bow hunt and okla. has plenty of hunting days for rifle and black powder in which i particapate in both...it gives you plenty of days to harvest 4 deer which is 2 to many to supply good venison in between seasons..

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 21, 2008 at 09:37 AM
Leave the animals alone.

Posted by: JMO on Aug 21, 2008 at 08:09 AM
If you opened a rifle season the number of people hunting in this county would increase dramatically and the number of bucks killed would go up 10 fold. Roger in Nashville how can you comment intelligently on our county? Do you know the human population, the deer population, the available hunting grounds, etc.etc. in Grayson county Texas? Texas Parks & Wildlife have all of the information available to them and have decided that it would not be a good idea. We have guns seasons in most parts of Texas but certain areas just do not have a sufficient deer population to allow for a 2 month general gun season like we have in other counties.

Posted by: Anonymous Location: sherman on Aug 21, 2008 at 06:54 AM
How about a shotgun and muzzle loader deer season . These weapons are short range an are proven effective on the east cost where human populations are three times the amount of Grayson co. Then it would be fair for everyone

Posted by: roger Location: nashville tn. on Aug 20, 2008 at 10:16 PM
I think every American hunter has equal rights. I believe that it is foolish to think that bringing in a riffle season would wipe out the whitetail population. Maybe one should look a little further than ones own county line and see that the rest of us who have not had our rights taken away and are still able to carry on the tradition of riffle hunting , have not run out of whitetail bucks to hunt. What you have are a bunch of bullies just trying to get their way. I say this is America. Get over yourself and give back the rights to all taxpayers alike. Just because a hunter does not choose to stab his deer to death with an arrow does not mean that he does not have the right to sit at his table and enjoy some good ole deer steak in the winter.

Posted by: JLC Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 10:14 PM
I am a bow hunter. I enjoy the work that goes into setting up stands in areas you have scouted and finding the deer. I hunt in Grayson County. I would like to see a youth only Shotgun and Muzzleloader season for Grayson. My daughter has been working hard to get her skills with a bow refined, but still lacks the strength to draw a weight I feel is acceptable for a good hunting situation. I would love to give her the opportunity to sit on our property and watch as one of the beer walk in and lay the smack down on him with her 20 ga or a Muzzleloader. I don’t think this area has the population to support a long term rifle season. It isn’t about bowhunters monopolizing the county. It is about fostering a whitetail population that produces some really great, mature, bucks. Would we rather get to the point were people a taking a six point that is just outside the ears cause that is the biggest they have seen. I think not. I think a youth shotgun and muzzleloader season would not only expand our hunting base, but would get more young people involved and maybe keep some of these kids from living their lives tied to a Box.

Posted by: Mary Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 09:43 PM
HaHa grumpy old man I totally agree with you. It's not hunting when you feed them and just catch them as they eat what you put out for them. If you want to hunt do it right or don't bother. I can hear the story to the kids now... well son I put out a tasty treat for the deer and sat really quite and waited for it to come eat. Bang... then I shot it...is that something to be proud of???

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 20, 2008 at 08:25 PM
Quote, "If you have a hunter that will follow the rules your population will not drop off dramatically....that is why the limits were created in the first place." If that were true then we wouldn't have a need for antler restrictions or deer management co-ops. Increased efficiency and hunter density does have an affect on deer populations, especially localized populations. Archery just happens to be the best fit for Grayson's situation...and can anyone really argue against the outcomes??? So why change things?

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 20, 2008 at 08:17 PM
Gordonville Quote, "Do you mean to say that archers have bagged that many deer in the past decade so that there aren't enough now??" No, that is not at all the point. The issue is that Grayson has never supported a large population of deer throughout the entire county. You happen to live in a part of the county that IS populated with deer and a small human population for now. Your situation is not the average one in Grayson. Solid data has not been collected that details the sustainable habitat, hunter density, buck/doe ratio, or the age and level of buck maturation of our herd here in Grayson. Now consider the effects of added development and the resulting loss of ag crops (forage) and habitat, continued fragmentation of lands, higher hunter density and finally a more efficient manner of harvesting multiple deer. This issue isn’t banning rifles. The issue is responsible management of a restricted deer population under high pressure.

Posted by: VOTE Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 07:36 PM
THIS IS AN ELECTION YEAR LETS PUT IT TO A VOTE !!!

Posted by: Anonymous Location: Whitesboro on Aug 20, 2008 at 07:27 PM
Same old Grayson co. crap ! Think about it ! What dose it matter if you manage a deer heard with firearms and a bow ? the rest of Texas dose !If theres not enough deer for a gun season then theres not enough for BOW season !!!!

Posted by: Anonymous Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 07:16 PM
Why not give a shotgun and muzzle loader seasons a try ? Or are our tax dollars license fees going for a select few bow hunters ? Again !!!

Posted by: anonymous Location: gainesville on Aug 20, 2008 at 06:06 PM
I agree with grumpy old man. You don't hunt deer. What you do is like shooting your kids when they come to the table to eat dinner. Only after they trust you for feeding them for a while. and what happend to eat wht you kill. I have seen alot of people with "trophy" kills. What a waste.

Posted by: Anonymous Location: Gordonville, TX on Aug 20, 2008 at 05:05 PM
I live in a rural section of Grayson County near the Cooke County line. Why shouldn't my son be able to hunt deer with a shotgun on our own property if those in adjoining counties can? There are plenty of ranches and rural areas in Grayson where shotgun hunting would be appropriate--just as with other hunting, hunters are not going to be doing so in the suburban and urban areas. If it has been "archery only" for 10 years, then the population should now be sufficient to withstand a regulated season. Do you mean to say that archers have bagged that many deer in the past decade so that there aren't enough now?? I think not. I believe the archers with the $$ and clout just want to keep the trophies for themselves. It would be slim pickins for them if they had competition with shotgun hunters.

Posted by: anonymous Location: whitesboro on Aug 20, 2008 at 03:50 PM
It's easy for people that are not in the line of fire to have an opinion. This will be just like the land fill. It will be crammed down our throtes and we will suffer for the change. Hunters from the city have no respet for residence property or their rights. I for one am sick of outsider coming in and changing things. How about rifle hunting on this guys front poarch. How would he feel about that? We have had equipment damaged because of dove hunters. I can only imagine what deer hunters would do. What is wrong with leaving things alone. Everything doesn;t have to change for change sake.

Posted by: Life long deer hunter Location: Cooke County on Aug 20, 2008 at 03:16 PM
I have hunted with a rifle all my life. If the deer population is down leave the "archery only season" in place. Once the population rises to a level that will support the rifle season the open it! As far as the "being safe" or "not being safe" issue....if the rules are in place and they are followed as they should be then the safety issues should be at a minimum....When you have the idiots that think they are too good to follow the rules out there thats when it becomes unsafe. As far as the population depleting rapidly....it all falls back to follow the rules....If you have a hunter that will follow the rules your population will not drop off dramatically....that is why the limits were created in the first place. If your taking illegal deer then you DON'T NEED TO BE HUNTING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!

Posted by: Styx Location: Nearby on Aug 20, 2008 at 03:00 PM
I dont see why Archers should get privelage over rifle hunters. Of course everyone below saying they agree are probably primary Bow hunters. "Rifle season in the short term is going to increase hunter participation in a year or two but in the long term it is going to wipe out the deer heard,” said Benson. You cannot go around saying that hunting "controls the population" in one breath, then in another take sides based on your weapon of choice. It either works, or it doesnt, for ALL hunters...and seasons should be set up to abide to each. A short rifle season, shorter archery season, whatever. It should be monitored, set up to regulate by the Wildlife people, and for all ages to participate in. The "One guy with money" simply means he can be heard, where the rest of us "without money" who are rifle hunters cannot. Share, or move aside.

Posted by: Hunter Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:56 PM
Roger, if there was a rifle season it would not be implemented on the HWMA. Not sure if you where aware of that or not. I am a hunter and would prefer no season as to have the deer herd drastically reduced because of a rifle season. I have been a rifle hunter all my life and still am I just care about the wonderful resource we have and would like for it to be around for my children. I can assure you this in not about individual interest it’s about the deer herd in Grayson County and the current quality of the herd. But I respect your opinion. I would like to see more deer continue to migrate south of the Refuge into other areas of Grayson County like Howe.

Posted by: Grumpy Old Man Location: Denison on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:25 PM
There is reason Grayson county is “Bow only” and the circumstances haven’t changed. There are plenty of places for rifle hunters, and I use the term hunter loosely. As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet there aren’t ANY hunters around here any more. Now days all you guys do is bait a hole and wait for Bambie to come feed. You guys wouldn’t recognize deer sign if it was stuck up your nose and God forbid you actually have to stalk your prey.

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:10 PM
they should have a rilfe season. It's hard to mount a spotlight on a bow

Posted by: Rifle Hunter on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:06 PM
For once i actually agree with JMO. I actually started hunting the black powder season up in Oklahoma a couple of years ago and i really enjoy it. Not nearly as many people hunt with a muzzleloader and most of the time you only have one shot unlike a lever action or any other type of rifle where you can quickly reload.

Posted by: JMO on Aug 20, 2008 at 12:58 PM
I hunt primarily with a bow and I like things how they are. If anything I might add a 10-day muzzleloader season. I don't think the population would be too negatively effected with a shortened season and using black powder.

Posted by: Elmer Location: Fudd on Aug 20, 2008 at 12:56 PM
Shuuush! i'm hunting wabbits.

Posted by: Devlin Location: North Texas on Aug 20, 2008 at 12:20 PM
It only goes to show that people from the big city who move out to the country to be connected to nature are as far from being connected as it is possible to live on the moon.

Posted by: Bambi Location: graysoncounty on Aug 20, 2008 at 12:17 PM
This is a good idea. Eat more Beef. :)

Posted by: roger Location: Howe on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:41 AM
The fact that there is a groupe that wants their on private hunting ground at HWMA is not right for the rest of the county. if you want to play Indian go right ahead but I have advanced to the white mans weapon the 30-06.

Posted by: Anonymous on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:36 AM
The residents of Grayson County proposed the "archery only" concept years ago and have supported it since. This was in response our herd's healthy local population, but sparse regional population within the county. That population distribution has persisted and is mostly limited to drainages and wooded areas (riparian areas) in the northern parts of the county with arms extending into the southwestern corner of the county. Many of these areas are subject to be developed in the near future, compromising the deer habitat that is currently available. The issue, responsible and proper management of a shared resource that is enjoyed by all of the citizens of Grayson county, be they bow hunters or rifle hunters, hunters or non-hunters. We should choose our management tools carefully or else we may squander the resources we have been blessed with. I support preserving the current “archery only”, because it has been successful and the citizens of Grayson County have supported it.

Posted by: Rifle hunter on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:31 AM
I agree that in Grayson co. that there should only be an archery season. I've never hunted with a bow but would love to learn. There are probably certain areas that could hunt safely with a rifle but you can't make those certain areas able to use a rifle not the others. I also agree that the chance for a record buck would go down tremendously. Don't do it people!!!

Posted by: SC Location: Sherman on Aug 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM
The residents of Grayson County proposed the "archery only" concept years ago and have supported since. Grayson is the only county in the state where archery equipment is the exclusive means to harvest a white-tailed deer. As stated this was developed and has been supported by the citizens of this county. The limited impact of our unique "archery only" season has preserved our local population while also producing mature deer. This is something that almost all other counties have struggled to achieve. What data exists to support a potential change OR even the need to chance? Especially in the face of increasing land fragmentation, human population and development?

Posted by: Deen Location: Texas on Aug 20, 2008 at 10:24 AM
Grayson county has produced a number of record book bucks. I strongly feel that if they open a rifle season the number of big bucks will deplete rapidly. I also feel that it wouldn't be safe.

Posted by: me Location: here on Aug 20, 2008 at 08:50 AM
I HUNT MONTAGUE AND COOKE COUNTIES, I'M NOT SURE ABOUT GRAYSON BUT IF IT HAS BEEN BOW ONLY FOR MANY YEARS AND ONLY ONE LAND OWNER WHO HAS TWO MUCH MONEY AND COMES UP HERE BUYING UP ALL THE LAND AND RUNNING UP LAND PRICES WANT'S TO CHANGE THINGS I THINK YOU NEED TO OPEN UP RIFLE SEASON ON HIM. THATS JUST MY THOUGHTS

Posted by: Jake on Aug 20, 2008 at 08:08 AM
Why is Grayson archery only? Cooke and Fannin have rifle seasons. As long as the hunting is done safe I dont see the problem

Posted by: Michael Location: Texas on Aug 20, 2008 at 07:28 AM
I am a avid deer hunter and live in Grayson County and I agree with everyone eles. Do not open a rifle season here the herd would be wipe out in a matter of a couple of years and then at that point rifle hunters would be shooting anything that had horns.Pick up a bow it is alot more rewarding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: JMO on Aug 20, 2008 at 07:23 AM
As an avid hunter I say no gun hunting in Grayson county. The deer numbers are not there yet and this county is too populated with people to allow for safe gun hunting.

Posted by: L.C.Clyde Location: Denison on Aug 20, 2008 at 02:35 AM
When I was younger in 70s I asked my father who hunted in Coloraado and south Texas why we didnt have a rifle season as it seemed deer were plentiful here.His answer made sense, hi-powered rifle ammunition is capable of travelling a great distance and what was "in the country" when I was young is not any longer.People dont live that far apart in rural areas.As much as I would like to see it it could only be safe in limited areas. a shotgun season would be reasonable but deer populations would have to be montored and limits put in place.Safety would certainly have to be a factor with a rifle.

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